Keith Andrews (Head Coach) (4 Viewers)

[stomalomalus]

I didn't understand the bit where you said we've been mediocre for a few weeks I guess. Did you mean a week?

Meh, sorry, the international bread kinda screwed time. Chelsea was more than a month ago...

 

[BeesManMax]

we’re struggling because we lack ball carriers imo. As many have said when teams come to attack us we can break at pace with our speed in our forward line and tend to get the majority of our goals either on the counter or from a set piece. When teams sit back we don’t have anyone to beat a man and make space for themselves, breaking the lines, which ultimately means we tend to see a lot of slower side to side passing and pedestrian style attacking play. It’s Keith’s job to fix that.

 

[JANORAK]

We were the better team for 30 of the 45 minutes last night, and all three of Sunderland's goals were the fault of individual mistakes, not because Sunderland were suddenly playing amazingly. And as Les mentioned, we also got one back before half time, which is always an important factor in these decisions.

Sunderland had a very good 15 minutes, with considerable help from ourselves. Looking at the remainder of the game, we’d started well, and came back well with a goal before half time. Another to finish the match, and it could be said that having not conceded again, we actually won 5/6 of the match! Football doesn’t work like that though, and others have explained last night in detail.
It happens, thankfully for us, only occasionally. The last time I was present for a ‘tonking’ was at Villa, and Emery’s first game(?) after Gerrard. Yes, D&G on the day, but it hasn’t worked out too badly since…

 

[Jago16]

We just look ill equipped to deal with teams pressing us hard and high and then dropping off. Basically what we did first half of last season.

We're not comfortable passing through the lines yet. I thought we might be able to progress quickly, but it feels like we're having a bit of an adjustment period, not helped by an unfair reputation among officials...no idea where that's come from, and it's pretty problematic.

KA needs to earn his corn in adapting quickly, as we're going to fall behind at this rate...though that we're still 6th after being mediocre for the past few weeks says a lot about where our levels are...

The refereeing of us lately has been very strange. I always thought Keith was very fair in his interviews, not wanting to criticise officials too much to try and encourage fair officiating.

But some of the reffing we are subject to at the moment has been quite unfair. Thiago being fouled left, right and centre, then the smallest touch and a Sunderland player would throw themselves to the ground and the free kick is given.

The biscuit was taken last night when Diouf (I think) was wiped out from behind in the LB position, and then the Sunderland player threw themselves to the floor under no real contact and the linesman standing 1 metre away failed to give a foul, and the referee punished Brentford.

You then have incidents like Cash fouling Schade off the ball, which is not seen by one of four officials, or looked at as an off the ball incident (can you foul people off the ball now without ramification?). Schade being fouled at Leeds (which felt like a massive turning point in our early season momentum, imagine if we had gone there and won?) It even goes back to last season, with failures to send off players or even give fouls when we played Arsenal (Gabriel), Tottenham (Romero) and Newcastle (Burn).

Bemusing and actually starting to hinder us. Other teams win so many fouls and break the game up which does not suit us.

 

[pompeybee]

The refereeing of us lately has been very strange. I always thought Keith was very fair in his interviews, not wanting to criticise officials too much to try and encourage fair officiating.

But some of the reffing we are subject to at the moment has been quite unfair. Thiago being fouled left, right and centre, then the smallest touch and a Sunderland player would throw themselves to the ground and the free kick is given.

The biscuit was taken last night when Diouf (I think) was wiped out from behind in the LB position, and then the Sunderland player threw themselves to the floor under no real contact and the linesman standing 1 metre away failed to give a foul, and the referee punished Brentford.

You then have incidents like Cash fouling Schade off the ball, which is not seen by one of four officials, or looked at as an off the ball incident (can you foul people off the ball now without ramification?). Schade being fouled at Leeds (which felt like a massive turning point in our early season momentum, imagine if we had gone there and won?) It even goes back to last season, with failures to send off players or even give fouls when we played Arsenal (Gabriel), Tottenham (Romero) and Newcastle (Burn).

Bemusing and actually starting to hinder us. Other teams win so many fouls and break the game up which does not suit us.

Can we not at least keep this thread clear of whingeing about referees?

 

[stomalomalus]

we’re struggling because we lack ball carriers imo. As many have said when teams come to attack us we can break at pace with our speed in our forward line and tend to get the majority of our goals either on the counter or from a set piece. When teams sit back we don’t have anyone to beat a man and make space for themselves, breaking the lines, which ultimately means we tend to see a lot of slower side to side passing and pedestrian style attacking play. It’s Keith’s job to fix that.

I don't even thinks it's that.

We're trying to bait the press. But then we're screwing it up. See mistakes against Hull and now against Sunderland. We're not good enough at baiting the press and then playing through. TBH, I'm not convinced any of our midfielders are natural pivots, which doesn't help.

And because we're not good enough, we're not exploiting space, and we're ending up unable to progress through the lines quickly enough.

You can see how we'd like to get through. You can see the shapes...but I think they're both underdeveloped and our players are not executing them well enough.

 

[mundee4england]

My last comment was meant to be the opposite of doom and gloom! Results haven't gone our way, yet we're still 6th.

And our ability to beat the top teams is still there, it's against teams who treat us as the bigger threat where we struggle recently.

We beat Spurs and Chelsea, lost 10v12 against Liverpool, and drew against...Villa, Leeds, Sunderland, Hull, and Bournemouth, either our peers or "below". We're struggling to impose our gameplan when we're treated as the "aggressor", and that is where we're suffering. This was a continuation of that, as Sunderland had no intention of playing football. Worst for me was when that winger rolled on the ground for 5 minutes clutching his head, feigning head injury for Diouf's high boot...when there was literally zero contact.

THAT is where I would like to see VAR intervention, he should be yellow carded. There were countless cases against last night of Sunderland players dropping like flies, while we stood our ground and didn't get decisions. I KNOW we all hate to see it, but we need to speak with the refs and make it understood: if that is what gets decisions, we need to start pretending we've been shot. As we're not getting the decisions atm., and it's not because we're in the wrong, it's about perception.

I’d like to see a panel of three ex pros review all games each weekend retrospectively. If they unanimously agree that someone has feigned injury the player gets a one game ban. It would stop it overnight!

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

There's lessons to be learned about messing about with formations, which couldn't have helped with the player rotations, but there were players that let him down badly, both regular starters and stand-ins.

I wondered who out of the regular starters you felt let him down?

 

[jlove]

I wondered who out of the regular starters you felt let him down?

Probably not for extended discussion on this thread but I thought Kayode was poor – he just seemed to be unfocussed a lot of the time (my son commented that he must've sent his nan to deputise!). That, coupled with Anthony being played out of his comfort zone (he's not defensive; I think he only works as a winger and we don't really play wingers) meant our RHS was quite chaotic.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

Probably not for extended discussion on this thread but I thought Kayode was poor – he just seemed to be unfocussed a lot of the time (my son commented that he must've sent his nan to deputise!). That, coupled with Anthony being played out of his comfort zone (he's not defensive; I think he only works as a winger and we don't really play wingers) meant our RHS was quite chaotic.

Fair enough

 

[badgerbee]

Scoring 5 minutes before half time might have convinced him that the 11 on the pitch were worth persevering with.

Plus only an excellent save away from it being 3-2 at ht...........

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Needs to get us back to playing how we can with the ball.

Not a fan of this "chaos" that seems to have become our mantra.

He cant help stupid defensive mistakes and im sure we will come good.

But we are a few poor results away from dropping right down the table.

 

[TadB]

I’d like to see a panel of three ex pros review all games each weekend retrospectively. If they unanimously agree that someone has feigned injury the player gets a one game ban. It would stop it overnight!

And pigs might fly!

 

[TorbayBee]

Probably not for extended discussion on this thread but I thought Kayode was poor – he just seemed to be unfocussed a lot of the time (my son commented that he must've sent his nan to deputise!). That, coupled with Anthony being played out of his comfort zone (he's not defensive; I think he only works as a winger and we don't really play wingers) meant our RHS was quite chaotic.

Yes MK seems to have become more disjointed in his play . We need to calm down and just play the football we are capable of and hope IT stops raging at himself and concentrates on calm finishing

 

[Hippobee]

Needs to get us back to playing how we can with the ball.

Not a fan of this "chaos" that seems to have become our mantra.

He cant help stupid defensive mistakes and im sure we will come good.

But we are a few poor results away from dropping right down the table.

I'm glad someone else has articulated that. It's exactly how I feel. Despite his honest words, I'm not seeing the quality of football improving.

Objectors to this will (rightly) point to just one defeat, that we are 6th and that more teams are setting up to block us. (I'm less convinced of this bit or that it's that different from last season).

The physicality is getting us too many cards, leading to suspensions and the football is not great. I think it's because I (and plenty of others) really got excited after the Spurs drubbing and 45 mins at Leeds. We looked superb. Since then, I really don't think we've played well (and I include the Chelsea game in that, despite the result). Some would say, yes, but we're not getting beaten.

We've looked 2nd best twice against the PL's bottom team and really struggled against Hull, everyone's favourites for relegation. As you say, we are going to start dropping down the table if something doesn't change. The pace and flair seems to have fallen away. Too many players getting 5/10 and not enough 7s or 8s.

We really do need a win, starting with Forest. Really could do with hitting a purple patch, as despite us being relatively low spenders in the PL, I really feel this squad is under achieving.

Looking forward to some creativity from Dams, Jensen and KLP tomorrow, some tricks from Dango, pace from Schade and energy from Thiago. One good win gets us and Keith back on track.

And no, that's not bed wetting before someone chimes in. It's an honest opinion of what I've seen.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

I'm glad someone else has articulated that. It's exactly how I feel. Despite his honest words, I'm not seeing the quality of football improving.

Objectors to this will (rightly) point to just one defeat, that we are 6th and that more teams are setting up to block us. (I'm less convinced of this bit or that it's that different from last season).

The physicality is getting us too many cards, leading to suspensions and the football is not great. I think it's because I (and plenty of others) really got excited after the Spurs drubbing and 45 mins at Leeds. We looked superb. Since then, I really don't think we've played well (and I include the Chelsea game in that, despite the result). Some would say, yes, but we're not getting beaten.

We've looked 2nd best twice against the PL's bottom team and really struggled against Hull, everyone's favourites for relegation. As you say, we are going to start dropping down the table if something doesn't change. The pace and flair seems to have fallen away. Too many players getting 5/10 and not enough 7s or 8s.

We really do need a win, starting with Forest. Really could do with hitting a purple patch, as despite us being relatively low spenders in the PL, I really feel this squad is under achieving.

Looking forward to some creativity from Dams, Jensen and KLP tomorrow, some tricks from Dango, pace from Schade and energy from Thiago. One good win gets us and Keith back on track.

And no, that's not bed wetting before someone chimes in. It's an honest opinion of what I've seen.

You are 100% correct.
I could have written exactly that myself.

 

[tinman]

I hope KA has stressed the importance of not giving the refs the opportunity to book players for dissent. These are totally unnecessary. You can’t countenance the vagaries of ref decisions on what they perceive as fouls. Accept them, but don’t argue with them

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I've been watching Brentford for 55 years now but I fear I no longer know what success looks like to my fellow fans.

 

[Banana]

And no, that's not bed wetting before someone chimes in. It's an honest opinion of what I've seen.

Can I ask how we have managed to be in 6th place in the best league in the world and the 19th best team in the....WORLD?

 

[A Real Mysteron]

I've been watching Brentford for 55 years now but I fear I no longer know what success looks like to my fellow fans.

It’s not about success.
Apart from some promotions I’ve never known real success.
It’s about being entertained.
And this season, I largely don't find us entertaining.

 

[Banana]

It’s about being entertained.
And this season, I largely don't find us entertaining.

Yeah, like you were "entertained" in every season in the 70s, 80s and 90s eh

 

[A Real Mysteron]

Yeah, like you were "entertained" in every season in the 70s, 80s and 90s eh

I’m not after a row.
I enjoyed football for other reasons in my younger days.

 

[Untouchable]

It’s about being entertained.

For more years than I care to remember, the football we served up was sh*t and the antithesis of entertaining.

Even in previous successful periods the football was often low quality and agricultural.

We’ve shown this season that we can both entertain (Spurs, Birmingham, Chelsea second half, Leeds first half) and grind.

We are the 6th in the PL in our most successful spell ever as a club, 4th highest scorers in the PL, top end justice league performers every season and objectively one of the best teams on the planet.

Are we really in a position to demand more?

 

[A Real Mysteron]

For more years than I care to remember, the football we served up was sh*t and the antithesis of entertaining.

Even in previous successful periods the football was often low quality and agricultural.

We’ve shown this season that we can both entertain (Spurs, Birmingham, Chelsea second half, Leeds first half) and grind.

We are the 6th in the PL in our most successful spell ever as a club, 4th highest scorers in the PL, top end justice league performers every season and objectively one of the best teams on the planet.

Are we really in a position to demand more?

I think that we are in a position this season to expect more.
That’s why it’s a bit disappointing.

 

[Hippobee]

Can I ask how we have managed to be in 6th place in the best league in the world and the 19th best team in the....WORLD?

Of course you can ask. We've been mostly brilliant for 13-14 years.

Let's get back to playing to our capabilities and we might be able to end the season 6th - or better. That position doesn't mean a lot right now with the league so tight.

Keith and his colleagues have plenty of opportunity to improve things.

 

[Banana]

I think that we are in a position this season to expect more.
That’s why it’s a bit disappointing.

Why are we a position to expect more? We're already in the European places

 

[Andrelux]

Why are we a position to expect more? We're already in the European places

Positions in October mean nothing. Let's make sure we're in the European places after 38 games.

 

[Untouchable]

Why are we a position to expect more? We're already in the European places

* Champions League places when you remove Man City.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Positions in October mean nothing. Let's make sure we're in the European places after 38 games.

It's all we can comment on so far though.

 

[Untouchable]

Positions in October mean nothing. Let's make sure we're in the European places after 38 games.

There is ZERO chance you would say this if we were currently 20th.

 

[Banana]

Positions in October mean nothing. Let's make sure we're in the European places after 38 games.

Why are we a position to expect more? We're already in the European places

 

[Andrelux]

Why are we a position to expect more? We're already in the European places

When teams qualify for Europe on the basis of their position after 8 games, then our position now will matter

Otherwise, it's completely irrelevant.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

Why are we a position to expect more? We're already in the European places

It’s just not blowing my skirt up.
I was expecting us to really get at teams this season.
Have a bit of swagger about us.
It’s all a bit vanilla.

 

[TadB]

I'm glad someone else has articulated that. It's exactly how I feel. Despite his honest words, I'm not seeing the quality of football improving.

Objectors to this will (rightly) point to just one defeat, that we are 6th and that more teams are setting up to block us. (I'm less convinced of this bit or that it's that different from last season).

The physicality is getting us too many cards, leading to suspensions and the football is not great. I think it's because I (and plenty of others) really got excited after the Spurs drubbing and 45 mins at Leeds. We looked superb. Since then, I really don't think we've played well (and I include the Chelsea game in that, despite the result). Some would say, yes, but we're not getting beaten.

We've looked 2nd best twice against the PL's bottom team and really struggled against Hull, everyone's favourites for relegation. As you say, we are going to start dropping down the table if something doesn't change. The pace and flair seems to have fallen away. Too many players getting 5/10 and not enough 7s or 8s.

We really do need a win, starting with Forest. Really could do with hitting a purple patch, as despite us being relatively low spenders in the PL, I really feel this squad is under achieving.

Looking forward to some creativity from Dams, Jensen and KLP tomorrow, some tricks from Dango, pace from Schade and energy from Thiago. One good win gets us and Keith back on track.

And no, that's not bed wetting before someone chimes in. It's an honest opinion of what I've seen.

I agree in total with your post. I do not believe it is bed wetting as I honestly do not believe that however the season pans out we will be relegation candidates. What I do believe is that with the quality of our squad we ought to be producing a much higher standard of football than we are. I do wonder if the advent of this chaotic aggressive brand of football where Referees, however, justifiably are constantly challenged, is being coached into the team by our recently arrived Deputy Head Coach, Damian Duff? I look forward on Saturday to watching the team play the way they did verses Spurs.

 

[Andrelux]

There is ZERO chance you would say this if we were currently 20th.

'Fraid that's not true, Would only be 6 points below where we are now

Wouldn't be panicking at 5 points after 8 anymore than celebrating with 11 points.

Bed-wetters like you may feel different.

 

[Banana]

When teams qualify for Europe on the basis of their position after 8 games, then our position now will matter

Otherwise, it's completely irrelevant.

Why are we a position to expect more?

 

[The Joker]

Since then, I really don't think we've played well (and I include the Chelsea game in that, despite the result).

To me it felt like a pretty even first half, but we put three past them in the second. What more do you want?

We've looked 2nd best twice against the PL's bottom team and really struggled against Hull, everyone's favourites for relegation.

Few expect Sunderland to finish bottom. That might have summed up expectations around Hull before a ball was kicked - but their results since August prove that was inaccurate.

One good win gets us and Keith back on track.

A win would be good agreed. But we drew away at a fast improving Villa and if Yehor hadn't been sent off would more than likely have taken a point or more off Liverpool.

And no, that's not bed wetting before someone chimes in.

Well, it is really when our collective results so far this season have put us closer to a Champion's League spot than a relegation spot. But hey, ho...

 

[Greybeard]

For more years than I care to remember, the football we served up was sh*t and the antithesis of entertaining.

Even in previous successful periods the football was often low quality and agricultural.

We’ve shown this season that we can both entertain (Spurs, Birmingham, Chelsea second half, Leeds first half) and grind.

We are the 6th in the PL in our most successful spell ever as a club, 4th highest scorers in the PL, top end justice league performers every season and objectively one of the best teams on the planet.

Are we really in a position to demand more?

We have eleven points from eight games, which I suppose is average mid table form. Not too bad and I'm not complaining. Around what I expected.

But I do have a nagging feeling that there should be a little more to come from this squad. Obviously we've suffered injuries and we've had suspensions, all of which disrupts continuity. But I'm just not sure we're getting as much out of the players we have as we could. You sense a slight lack of confidence and decisiveness at times - which is hard to understand because we've got some really got footballers.

Maybe it's just a slightly flat dip in form and it'll all come good.

 

[Gawain]

It's not even November yet, and people are already drawing conclusions? Worse, drawing conclusions on the basis of a couple of below-par performances? Should we win our next two games, does that mean everything is suddenly rosy again and we're going to p1ss the league?

I have long thought that you cannot even begin to speculate about a team until Christmas, and not make firm predictions until Easter.

The club is in very good hands, we should trust the people who count to address these things, and concentrate our own efforts on getting behind the 11 players on the field, starting tomorrow.

 

[maddogging]

I think that we are in a position this season to expect more.
That’s why it’s a bit disappointing.

Don’t blame BFC solely for this, blame football in general. It has all become about athletes rather than ability.

 

[westendbee]

I don't even thinks it's that.

We're trying to bait the press. But then we're screwing it up. See mistakes against Hull and now against Sunderland. We're not good enough at baiting the press and then playing through. TBH, I'm not convinced any of our midfielders are natural pivots, which doesn't help.

And because we're not good enough, we're not exploiting space, and we're ending up unable to progress through the lines quickly enough.

You can see how we'd like to get through. You can see the shapes...but I think they're both underdeveloped and our players are not executing them well enough.

“And because we’re not good enough…”

Take a long hard look at yourself, we are the 4th highest scorers in what is an extremely competitive league … in the real world, what do you want, what do you expect???

 

[westendbee]

It’s not about success.
Apart from some promotions I’ve never known real success.
It’s about being entertained.
And this season, I largely don't find us entertaining.

How do you define “success” for a club like Brentford? We’re not going to consistently challenge for trophies compared with the likes of Liverpool / Arsenal / Man City / Chelsea etc, for me I’m more than happy for us to be competitive in the strongest league in the world. Call me strange, and many people do, but I love it when we grind out a 1 goal win against a bottom 3 team, those results are just so valuable…

 

[A Real Mysteron]

How do you define “success” for a club like Brentford? We’re not going to consistently challenge for trophies compared with the likes of Liverpool / Arsenal / Man City / Chelsea etc, for me I’m more than happy for us to be competitive in the strongest league in the world. Call me strange, and many people do, but I love it when we grind out a 1 goal win against a bottom 3 team, those results are just so valuable…

I don’t think you are strange.
I’m sure there are many that think a 1-1 draw at a piss poor Hull City, for example, was a good point.

Personally I think the whole thing smacks of Southgate’s England.

 

[Banana]

I don’t think you are strange.
I’m sure there are many that think a 1-1 draw at a piss poor Hull City, for example, was a good point.

Personally I think the whole thing smacks of Southgate’s England.

6th in the best league in the world. We've never had it so good. Lost 1 league match all season......to LIVERPOOL with 10 men.....Yawn

 

[A Real Mysteron]

6th in the best league in the world. We've never had it so good. Lost 1 league match all season......to LIVERPOOL with 10 mean.....Yawn

Let’s hope today does something to change my mind.

 

[Banana]

Let’s hope today does something to change my mind.

Frankly, I don't get a damn.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

Frankly, I don't get a damn.

I do.
I want to see football à la Brentford again.
Won, lose or draw.

 

[TadB]

I do.
I want to see football à la Brentford again.
Won, lose or draw.

I do care if we win, lose or draw, however, I do want to see us play good quality football. This is the best group of players we have ever had so are more than capable of playing with style!.

 

[TadB]

Can we not at least keep this thread clear of whingeing about referees?

You may not like reading it, but it is all true, and is getting serious. It should be discussed!

 

[grepo]

Positions in October mean nothing. Let's make sure we're in the European places after 38 games.

Maybe not so much this year with the league so tight, but history says otherwise with position after ten games being reasonably predictive at either end of the table. Let's get a 9th and 10th game win and press on with our European ambitions.